Mast cleats

[trashpad]

Not long after I had Reboot I popped off the screacher cleat trying to use the winch to tighten the halyard. So I moved it to the main cleat and sailed on. Now I just did the same thing and need to remount both cleats. I called US Spars and Rick said I could use 10-24 or 1/4-20 SS bolts if i can not find a commercial grade rivet gun.

What did you guys use to mount the rope clutches?

[Dan]

Just curious as to how you popped the cleat off using the winch. You shouldn’t be running the line down to the cleat and then back up to the winch, and that is the only way I can think you’d get enough force on the cleat to pop it off the mast.

I don’t have any clutches on the mast. I led my halyards aft to the cockpit. Harbor Freight sells a pretty good pop rivet tool. Sears also sells one that will do up to 3/16" stainless steel rivets.

[trashpad]

Yep, that is how I did it. I never could get the screacher tight enough with out the winch.

I have figured out that the swivel at the top of the screacher is not working well. It is free to turn with no load but under load it must tighten up. I had to cut off the last three feet of the halyard because it was so twisted.

[Dan]

One option, and it is one that is standard on the Gemini, is to install a longer halyard that attaches at the mast and goes to a block attached to the top of the screacher swivel and then back to the mast. This would give you a two-to-one purchase on the screacher and allow you to tension it properly without breaking stuff. Or, you could do what I did, and lead the spinnaker halyard back to the cockpit and use a bigger winch to tension it.

[Ron]

Kurt -

First of all, the screecher halyard shouldn't be that tight that your losing cleats. That will take pressure off of the head stay and cause other problems - the head stay is supposed to take the load, not any of the halyards.

But it can't be loose either - I tend to pull it as tight as I can by hand, then give it maybe 1/8 turn of the winch, then let the Lewmar clutch hold it there. My gauge for screecher halyard tension is to look at the head stay and furled genoa, stop grinding the winch when it JUST starts to sag, then back off may 1 or 2 inches. I don't see how anyone can do this without installing a clutch (or running the line elswhere) for either the main or screecher halyard, and preferably both. You've got one winch on the starboard side of the mast and it can't be used to hold both lines. Attempting to move a halyard off of the drum to jamb it on the cleat will allow the line to loosen up, and (as Dan said) using the cleat to turn the line can't be done.

Assuming the screecher upper swivel is not damaged and has too much friction, I think that the screecher luff wire may be a possible cause of the twist at the end of the halyard. Do you have any problems either opening or rolling up the sail? To do both correctly, the luff wire has to be pre-loaded with maybe 3 turns before the pennent is tied to the drum, and the halyard tension must be within a given range. Too tight or too loose will cause problems. Bierig produced a procedure on working with this luff wire when he found out that the Chinese wire was not assembled with the same amount of built in twist as the previous American and Korean wire. I think I posted his letter in the membes only section. If not, I'll do it now.

As far as mountng the cleats or clutches (and I WOULD buy and mount the clutches if you haven't already), use the biggest screws or rivets that will fit in the mouning holes. If screws use a fine thread sae or metric, and tap it after drilling the correct size hole for that tap. The fine thread has more holding power than coarse thread (more threads mean more force). You have to use screws to mount the Lewmar clutches - you can't get a rivet tool into the clutch. If you need to rivet a cleat that size, I'd use 1/4 inch rivets - stainless or aluminum. The stainless rivets are stronger. You would need a heavy duty rivet tool to do either.

[trashpad]

I do have the pre-turns on the luff wire, but it is a hit or miss if the sail will unfurl all the way. I am thinking that it is the top swivel. Just another thing on the to do list.


Clutches are on the to do list. i am hoping to find a deal this weekend. I also wanting to convert the screacher to a 2 to 1 which will help. Normally the screacher halyard is set and forget but on my last time out I could not get it to unfurl and had to slack the halyard to get it to go all the way out. When I got back to the dock I was trying to tighten the halyard back up and put a bit too much force on the winch. The rivets popped in half. They looked like they were aluminum not SS. I don't think I ever had it tight enough to slack the head stay but you never know.

[Ron]

When I got back to the dock I was trying to tighten the halyard back up and put a bit too much force on the winch. The rivets popped in half.

That implies that the mast cleat was between the winch drum and top of halyard, right? The mast cleats are below the winches on my boat. If yours is the same, that means that you diverted the halyard down to the cleat before wrapping it on the drum. That force coupled with the friction trying to get around the cleats horn could have busted the rivets.

I don't think that you need a 2 to 1 pull on the screecher halyard. The main and genoa halyards are usually tensioned even higher. Free up the winch by using 2 Lewmar clutches and use the winch to get the last 4 inches or so. But backoff a drop if the head stay and furled genoa seem to be sagging a little.

Defender usually has the best price on this type of equipment. I got mine there.

[trashpad]

Your right, down and back up. What can I say.

I thought that the pulley and the top of the halyard would help prevent the halyard from twisting and allow me to get it tight without using the winch.

[Ron]

I thought that the pulley and the top of the halyard would help prevent the halyard from twisting and allow me to get it tight without using the winch.

It could make it easier, but its not hard now - maybe a 1/8 turn of the winch before backing up a drop. Also could allow you to always tighten it too much. And what are you going to do with the 140 feet (or so) of halyard when the screecher is up? I tend to leave the screecher rigged for maybe a week at a time.

[trashpad]

I reinstalled the two cleats the other day. I went with the 1/4-20 size. I moved the location over and up about an inch as per Rick at US Spar. A quick drill and tap and the use of the Blue Loctite and they were mounted and ready. I did use some 5200 to fill the old holes.