multiple head sails

[Don]

Has any one tried flying the asymmetrical spinnaker along with the Genoa? We had the spinnaker close hauled and were able to use it up to about 30 degrees to good effect?! i wondered if adding the Genny would be possible? it might require some creative use if the winches... any thoughts? Don

[Ron]

I've done it once on this boat, and several times on others. It was during a race and we had a fairly short distance to go for the next mark, so we left both the genoa and screecher out on a downwind leg. Didn't really help, but I don't think it hurt either. But I sometimes unfurl one before I roll the other in, so I guess I've done it several times.

The other boat, a fairly large monohull, was wing on wing with a poled out 155% genoa on one side and a large asymmetrical on the other. I have no idea why I did it, other than to experiment a little. It did work though. I've done similar things with two 155's also.

Under normal circumstances it probably won't help. The two head sails on the same side sort of interfere with each other - especially upwind. Two many slots spoil the pie. How were you able to fly the asymmetrical at 30 degrees? You must mean apparent, not true. But even that's too low. The ama's are too far out - you must have sheeted it into the genoa lead block. I won't even bother to use the screecher at anything below 65 to 70 degrees. The 150% genoa is faster. I start thinking asymmetrical at about 80 degrees true.

[trashpad]

I always wanted to try the screacher on one side and the genny on the other with out the main but unless the wind is dead aft I would need a pole.

[Don]

Ah, OK ; I was thinking that the two head sails might split the wind and end up not doing any good. If I get a chance to try it I will let yous know how it turns out.
As to flying the spinny up wind, I guess I had the blessings of ignorance. I heard it was a down wind sail only but tried to squeeze what I could out of it in a wind that would not stay in a steady direction. I got the 30 degrees from the wind direction indicator on the instruments. it was rigged through the shackles on the ammas but hauled in tight like the genny goin up wind. it CRANKED ...added three knots to my speed ??!!

[Ron]

I got the 30 degrees from the wind direction indicator on the instruments. it was rigged through the shackles on the ammas but hauled in tight like the genny goin up wind. it CRANKED ...added three knots to my speed ??!!

I'd check the wind indicator. VERY few boats can point 30 degrees off the wind with ANY sail. Maybe something like an America's Cup boat with high tech sails? I'm happy to get 40 degrees true (with some power) with my 150% kevlar genoa sheeted in tight and the kevlar main pulled onto the center line with the traveler. I wouldn't even try the asymmetrical in anything less than about 65 to 70 degrees true. An asymmetrical is cut to handle wind angles in the reach to broadreach range - say 70 to 150 true. Also note that the bow sprit is not really strong enough to handle the screecher or asymmetrical that high upwind in any real wind.

[seicam]

Perhaps we are talking aparent wind vs. true wind angles here.

[Ron]

Perhaps we are talking aparent wind vs. true wind angles here.

Could be, but 30 degrees apparent still sounds a little high (meaning into the wind) for a sail that starts working at about 70 degrees true. As an example, you'd have to be doing 20 knots in 15 knots of wind at 70 degrees true to see 30 degrees apparent. At 60 degrees true, the boat would have to be doing 15 in 15 knots of wind,or 10 in 10, 5 in 5, etc.

60 degrees true is a little too far into the wind for Bierigs asymmetrical, which would probaly be rated as a code 3. The flatter code 0, otherwise known as the screecher could do 60 true (and 30 apparent) with good power.

But anyway, I wasn't there so I don't know the conditions. Maybe there was a 5 knot current pushing it along? I don't think that PC calibrates any of the instruments when they are installed, so it's not a bad idea to do it yourself. That means wind, speed, depth, etc. All of mine were significantly off.

[Don]

OK Ron now I have to go back to the books and get the true / apparent thing down.... your warning on the bowsprit is factor I had not considered however and will in the future... can I calibrate the instruments or does it require special gear/. What are the codes on the sails you were referring to? it does sound to me like the Asymetrical was doing something unusual. (and probably my instruments are OOW)

[Ron]

There are instructions on calibrating the Raymarine instruments in their respective manuals. Basically, the wind insturment has to be taught which direction is the front of the boat, so you just head directly into the wind and press some buttons. The depth gauge has a reference point which should be programmed into it - such as the actual depth it is reading, depth under bottom of boat, depth from water line. Take your pick - you just have to change the number. For example - if you want the actual depth of the water, add around 1 foot to the reading to represent the distance that the transducer if from the waterline. The knot meter can be calibrated several ways - including motoring or sailing a measured mile, using the gps in an area or time period with no current, dragging a calibrated knot stick behind the boat, etc.

I've probaly done an apparent wind angle of 25 degrees or so, but that was with the genoa hauled in all of the way, a decent and steady wind, and a reasonable sea state. I doubt if I could do it without all of the above working for me. Note that I'd be going a lot faster if I fell off maybe 15 to 20 degrees and would get wherever I was going to faster.

[trashpad]

I normally don't look at True but sail to Apparent. Just the way my dad taught me. I do keep an eye on what the True wind is up too so I know what to expect if I tack or maneuver.