Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Information and posts about the rigging and sails.
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wingman71
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Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by wingman71 »

Besides my sail purchases documented in a separate topic, I also have been busy with my rigging. It all stared with Practical Sailor's article on the top-down spinnaker furlers. As I mentioned elsewhere, I race Bay Wings and use an asymmetrical spinnaker. I have never liked spinnaker socks, but my crew sometimes has trouble cleanly hoisting and dousing the spinnaker. If you have raced with a spinnaker, you know all the horror stories.

I decided to get one and asked my rigger, The Rigging Company in Annapolis, MD, who installed my jib furler and my masthead nav lights, what they recommended. They came back with the SELDEN GX TOP DOWN FURLER GX10 W/LEAD EYE. This was the top choice in Practical Sailor. Theoretically, you could configure and install this yourself. But I know my limits and appreciate the advice of a professional. I have not yet played with it, but once we use it a few times, I will add an evaluation. It will pay for itself if it prevents major damage from shrimping!

As mentioned elsewhere, I also have a new main. As you may have noticed, our mains tend to get hung up on the backstay in light-air tacking and jibing. The backstay is wire, which can scape against a main, causing wear. The rigger came up with a better design that uses a rope backstay (NE Ropes V100) and much better purchase on the tightening block. At the masthead, they installed a flexible batten to extend the backstay further back, lessening the likelihood of having the main hang up. I just have to remember to release the backstay when tacking or jibing. Now that is easier with how the line from the block is lead closer to the helm. Link to picture.

Just before the rigger came to my boat, I was out sailing in 15 knots with gusts to 22. A gust hit and the mainsail slug at the clew popped out of the boom slot making that method of attaching the mainsail not available. Also, there was a lot of bad wear on the pin holding the boom to the mast. The way that the outhaul and reefing lines are rigged is also very cheap and hard to use, especially when you really must make adjustments while racing. So, what the heck, throw in a new boom. I do not need the extra link as I very rarely lower the mast and I can always take the main off.

The new boom has side cleats for the reefing lines and outhaul and a 4-to-1 purchase, making the adjustment much easier. See the pictures.

I now have new jib and main halyards, using 8mm NE Ropes VPC line. They move much smoother and the shackles are replaced. See the pictures.

The spinnaker halyard is also new, but is still 3/8" NE Rope STA-SET. It has a ball at the top now. See the pictures.

The tack line is Endura 8mm.

I kept the same traveler car, but made it so that the there are lines and blocks that control it instead of the small stoppers. the stoppers are still on the track for limiting the throw when necessary. See pictures.

I had a cunningham system installed. See the pictures.

I am trying an experiment with the jib sheets. I have them led to a car with block at the back of the jib track, then to the winch. The sheet does rub slightly in the fiberglass, but i will mount a plate to keep that from wearing. The vertical post on which the turnaround block was mounted was bending and rusting. The rigger and I were concerned that it might fail under load. The secondary advantage of this arrangement is that you do not trip over the sheet as much.

BTW, I clean and grease my winches on the boat. I cut a hole out in the bottom of a paper bag and leave about 10 inches of the bag's sides. I put this over the winch and tape it to the boat. that way if something falls from the winch, it stays in the bag.

If you go to my rigger's website you will some pictures and descriptions. http://theriggingco.com/gallery/

Here are the Dropbox picture links. Just copy to any browser and you should be able to see them. You should not need Dropbox installed.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... tten_1.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... onnect.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... uthaul.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... adjust.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... down_1.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... _2.JPG.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... k_stbd.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... l_port.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... _lines.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... ard_on.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... aylard.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... alyard.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... k_back.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... _Front.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... hackle.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... d_Tack.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/573 ... ck_jib.JPG

If anyone wants more details, just send me your email address and I respond.
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escape
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by escape »

Thanks for sharing your upgrades. For the backstay, this year I will try a double backstay, each one hook on the amas.Can't wait to try this but it's not until June :(
Michel
Chenoa, #377
onremlop
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by onremlop »

Did you move your pics? They are coming up as not found.
wingman71
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by wingman71 »

Well, last year I did the Spring adjustment of the rigging to the recommended 600 lbs for the lower shrouds. After a couple of races in the summer when the wind rose to above 25 knots while I was going upwind, I noticed that my frame A on the port side was slightly bowed. This had happened a few years previous when I had the same problem. I thought that I had tensioned the shrouds enough, but I do not remember if I had the backstay pulled tight when I tensioned them.

When I checked the tension again, it was way down, well below the 600 lbs, even with the backstay off. Somewhere, either from the summer heat or the hard sailing upwind stretching the shrouds.

Kato Marine, who originally built the frames, straightened it again, this time for about $15 more than last, around $120. i asked if the deflection weakened the tubing any, but he claimed that it did not.

I was more careful this year to ensure that my backstay was on tightened to the max, where I have it if I am pounding upwind in high winds. I then tightened the shrouds to about 600 lbs. Upon loosening the backstay I saw that the load on the shrouds was now close to 900 lbs! Remember that tightening the backstay bends the mast, thus lowering the tension on each shroud. This is what I now plan to use, but I will watch the frame A tube for any bowing and will be quick to adjust the tension.

If you plan on doing the tensioning yourself, remember that you will need the right Loos Gauge. I have two, the smaller one for the uppers and the larger one for the main shrouds. They have a notch that allows you to measure the diameter of the shroud cable. This is necessary to ensure that you use the right scale on the gauge.

You should also remember that I have a much greater purchase on my backstay tensioner than the standard. Thus, I get a greater bend, more sail flattening, and thus a greater reduction in my shroud tension.

I have also purchased a new spinnaker that should better match my top-down furler, so I am hopeful that my problems there of the lower half of the spinnaker back-winding on the furler torsion line during furling have gone away. I will let all know if that is what actually happens.
Ron
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by Ron »

You've GOT to adjust the lowers (A and B frames!) as well. The boat does NOT have lower wire shrouds - the two pairs of stainless tubes are doing this function. I normally center the mast head first, then adjust the four lower frames so that they are NOT IN COMPRESSION. They must be pulling down, not pushing up. You cannot adjust this with the wire uppers. That's probably why you've bent yours several times. They were not designed to push up, and WILL bend if they do. The larger diameter B frame will take most of this abuse. After this is done, I break out the LOOS gauge to get to a reasonable starting point to tune the uppers. Then I verify that the lower A and B frames are still pulling down. Final tuning should be on the water in about 10 knots of wind.

This procedure is carefully detailed in the owners manual. Skip the first part and you'll be straightening the B frames forever. By the way, any metal tube will be slightly weakened if bent and then re-straightened.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
wingman71
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by wingman71 »

I followed the owner's manual directions very carefully. Even tapered my pins (replaced the original bolts long ago) on the A frames, which are the larger SS tubes on either side of the mast, going up to just below the first spreaders. I should have been more careful in saying "lower shrouds" as I meant the outer shrouds, also called the cap shrouds.

There is nothing that I saw in my owner's manual about adjusting while underway. Not sure what setting I would use if I tried. Might be interesting to see what the readings are. Where is your apparent wind when you measure?

It is obvious to me that having the backstay on is critical. If you are going upwind in 20 knots, especially in big waves, you need all the backstay you can get to flatten the sail and stabilize the fore/aft mast movement in the waves.
Ron
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by Ron »

The following excerpts are from the owners manual (page 9). I was wrong about the frame letters, I usually start counting A.B.C.D from the bow, but Tony labels the heavier strut as "A". And I sometimes skip or combine some of the steps in the process. And every sail boat should have the final rig tune under way in about 10 knots on the beam.

...................

Part of the challenge of correctly tensioning the rig has
to do with determining whether frames ‘A’ and ‘B’ are in a
neutral, compressed, or tensioned state. The frames are
much like large turnbuckles in that they can be shortened
or lengthened from a threaded connection on the ends. To
correctly tension the rigging, frames ‘A’ and ‘B’ are placed in a
neutral state while the shrouds are tensioned. Afterwards the
frames are placed in slight tension.
To tension the rigging, start by removing the locking pin
from frame “A”. Rotate the ¾” nut until there is a 3/8” in gap
between the ¾” nut and outer tube. This ensures that frame
“A” can not take compression.
Continually loosen frame “B” so that it is not in tension or
compression.


(adjust intermediate and uppers here, and center
mast top)

Then -

...........................

Turn the ¾” nut on a frame ‘A’ until locking pin holes are
within 1/2 of a hole from lining up. Do this on both sides.
Either drive in tapered locking pin or have someone pull the
cap shroud so that outer tube on a frame A moves down
over inner tube enabling the insertion of a 3/8” bolt. (This
ensures frame “A” is in tension). Tighten frame “B” so that it
is just in tension and lock as well.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Bill
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by Bill »

I am about to try rigging a batten at the masthead crane, to pull the backstay back when slacked. How long is your batten and how wide, and how well does it work? I have 1 1/4" wide batten material, was going to make it about 3 feet long, maybe double for the first foot, as it is a used batten and maybe a little soft from use.
wingman71
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Re: Bay Wings 2014 Rigging Upgrades

Post by wingman71 »

Sorry, I missed some recent comments on my rigging. Here is my response.

For the batten on the backstay, the rigger did that and I do not know how stiff it is. I think that mine could be stiffer as it does not spring back up parallel to the deck when I release it, as it should. this is only a problem if you are having issues with the main hanging up on the backstay in light-wind tacks, which I do. As I have the backstay block right behind the helm on the backside of the port bulkhead above the gas compartment, it is easy to release and reset just before and after a tack (if I remember). I also had a new sail made that has a larger roach than the original, so it tends to hang up occasionally. The backstay is a no-stretch line (NE Rope, V100, 8mm, 45'), so it does not rub the main as bad as a stainless steel cable, of course.

The idea of backstays on the amas is intriguing. it does make it more difficult to set and I wonder what load it puts on the amas. Should not be too much, I would guess. you must be careful to get an even tension for an even bend. Not sure if twisting the mast is to one side would be bad for the mast or for the sail trim.

I will do a mid-summer rig tune for an upcoming race this week, in accordance with the owner's manual, of course. I may make other comments after that effort. Ron, if you do the rigging underway with 10 knots abeam, what # setting do you use on the upwind side (assuming that you always tune the upwind)? I assume that you do the same way as a static setting, going back and forth between sides to ensure equal settings. Finding smooth water and 10 knots (apparent, I assume) for long enough to get it right might be the hardest part! And do you have any backstay on?

I also moved my genoa sheets off the aft pulpit as the pulpit was showing an alarming bend forward (racing in 25-knot winds, again) and I wanted to use those uprights for the traveler blocks, anyway. I now lead them from the movable block back to a block at the aft end of the track then to the cabin-mounted winches. I had to put stainless steel rub plates, but tacking is easier and safer. I will post pictures later of what I did, as the dropbox ones are long gone.

Someone mentioned putting two clutches on the mast for main and spinnaker. My rigger did that while doing all the other changes and just tapped two holes for the clutch screws, the pull is almost parallel with the mast and I have had no problems. It is cheap insurance against shrimping the spinnaker during a hoist or takedown (if your mast guy is quick!). I purposely do not lead any halyards back to the cockpit as with very little heel, standing at the mast is easy and the fewer lines on the deck and in the cockpit or cabin, the better! Also, being able to look up the mast during a hoist is a good safety measure. All lines stay at the mast.
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