What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

A forum about Trailering, Launching and Retrieving the Telstar.
Ron
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Ron »

You'll wind up with a much safer and more comfortable trip if everything is set up and adjusted right. Besides matching the towing vehicle to the actual 6500 pound load, the tongue weight should be in the 8 to 10 percent range and some of that should be distributed to the trucks front axle. That means 520 to 670 pounds for most of us, which is NOT the way it comes from the factory. My 20hp boat had less than 400 pounds on the tongue until I moved the axles back around 4 inches. The heavier 50hp motor would probably see-saw another 50 pounds off of the tongue. To help compensate for that I had always stored everything heavy on the boat (sails, etc.) as far forward as I could, getting it up to around 450 pounds. If I remember correctly, I'm at around 550 pounds now with the re-located axles. The Equal-I-zer hitch has always been adjusted to move close to half of that to the front tires on the Avalanche. Using a straight hitch could easily put 900 pounds on the back axle and remove 300 from the front.

The single axle drum brakes on the Venture trailer is another matter which should probably be addressed by anyone who tows for longer distances and/or at highway speeds. 3,000 pounds of stopping power on a 6500 pound load? Guess what is supplying the rest? Probably not that dangerous if you're towing with an 8,000 pound heavy duty truck (the trucks weight, not towing capacity which is about 12,000 pounds), but anything smaller will be over-loaded. It's also illegal in more half of the states.

This is not rocket science, just basic towing rules and common sense.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Mark
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Mark »

Certified weight, Honda 50, tanks empty, Ford Expedition EL, I person in the Expedition.

I used to use a volvo XC90, I would not recommend it.

Mark
Ron
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Ron »

Thanks for weighing it, Mark. Maybe everyone will believe me now. You've got 6500 pounds on the trailer axles, probably another 400 on the tongue. I wouldn't feel comfortable towing this 6900 pounds with a mid-size or smaller truck. Mine was a little lighter with the Honda 20 at around 6100 axles and 450 tongue as I recall. This is the 3rd certified weighing of a Telstar 28 and trailer, and all were above 6500.

I would measure your tongue weight also - it's got to be at least 550 to tow this safely and I doubt if you're over 400. I first partially solved this problem by storing everything as far forward as possible (sails, etc.) until I finally moved the axles back around 4 inches last year. By the way, the single axle drum brakes which are capable of stopping around 3000 pounds safely must be having some fun with the 6500 pounds on the axles. I still don't believe that they did this.

I passed by Skippers, VA on Thursday on the way from Fl to NJ, but I was pulling the 20 foot Com-Pac Horizon Cat instead. That boat and trailer were about 700 pounds over published specs. Too bad none of the builders know how to weigh a boat or trailer. But Com-Pac was smart enough to put 4 wheel brakes on this much lighter(3700 pound) load.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Mark
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:13 pm
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Mark »

Ron

I was forced to change the brakes, the brakes fused together and I had to take a crowbar to separate them and one of the wheel bolts sheered off. Replaced with disk brakes and new actuator. I'll add brakes to the rear wheels if I tow long distance again.

I got the parts online from the Trailer Parts Superstore also known as Eastern Marine
931 South Chapel Street
Newark, DE, 19713
(800)453-7379

New holes have to be drilled for the actuator and it requires grade 5 or better bolts, unfortunately I can't find grade 5 galvanized.

Order Summary
Code Item Options Qty Unit Price Total
1 5256067 TIE DOWN Electric Reversing Solenoid #81103 1 $56.95 $56.95
2 1561002 KODIAK 10" Trailer Disc Brake Assy, S-CAD #1HRCM10SCADKIT 2 $122.95 $245.90
3 5237027 TITAN / DICO AERO 7500 Disc Brake Actuator 1 $169.95 $169.95
4 5256044 20' Single Axle Brake Flexible Tubing Kit #80326 1 $59.95 $59.95

Mark
Ron
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Ron »

Mark -

I went with the old TieDown Actuator case, but replaced the master cylinder and rods (both stainless steel now) with the disc brake versions, and added the version of the solenoid that pumps the fluid back into the resevoir. The TieDown 9.6 disc brakes were on sale that week (about $85 each) so I used them as well. Bought most of the parts from the same store - Trailer Parts Superstore. I like the TieDown disc brake system - aluminum calipers and plated and vented rotors. Replaced most of the brake lines with stainless steel as well.

There is a MAJOR difference between 4 vented disc brakes and 2 drum brakes. Besides a huge increase in stopping power and heat dissapation, the brakes are extremely easy to wash out with fresh water afterwards. I carry a 2 gallon garden sprayer in the truck for that purpose. Most ramps do not have a garden hose. I had my 2 drums heat up to over 400 degrees at times. That's what probably fused your's together. We're both lucky that the tires did not blow out at that temperature.

Measure your tongue weight when you get a chance. You might want to move the axles back too.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Mark
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Mark »

Ron
I might well move the axels when the boat is on the lift. Is there any way to determine the status of the springs? Mine appear very rusty and the metal bands (clips?) that wrap around the leaves are basically rusted away.

Mark
Ron
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Ron »

It's probably just surface rust, at least on the springs themselves. The trailer is not really old enough for it have gotten deeper than that. There are a number of chemicals that will safely remove most of it, and a wire brush (possibly attaced to a drill) could help as well. Spray or brush it on, wait a few minutes (according to the bottle or can) and then hose it off. It might take more than one application to really clean it. At that point I would buy a few cans of lightweight waterproof grease which you could spray onto the springs or other parts maybe once or twice a year. I've been using a product made by "Blaster" with pretty good results. It's made specifically for this purpose. I posted a photo in the "Trailer Brake Problems" section which shows the condition of the springs and other parts after maybe a dozen salt water dunks.

You should also wash down the trailer with fresh water as quickly as possible after a dip into salt water. Knowing that most ramps do NOT have a hose nearby, I tend to carry a 2 gallon garden tank sprayer filled with fresh water in the truck to do it at the ramp.

Take a 2nd look at the "Trailer Finished" thread in this section. Mine is just about perfect now. I pulled the boat down to Florida last year with this setup and the difference between the before and after towing experience was amazing. Maybe give it a 2 out of 10 before, 9 out 10 after. Didn't even know I had 6600+ pounds back there (when not climbing grades and looking out the back window of the truck). It rides, handles and stops like it is supposed to.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
rbw
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by rbw »

Hi All,
Just a follow up to my original post re towing with a Jeep Liberty Diesel. My wife Alice and I trailed Troutlily this March and April approximately 5000 miles round trip down to Flamingo, Florida, the Lower Keys, and Dry Tortugas from Nova Scotia with no problems. Before the trip I replaced the actuator and drum brakes with Tie-Down's disk brakes and a back up lock out valve and also moved back the trailer axle about 4" as per Ron's suggestion. Stopping power was truly excellent and almost indistinguishable from the vehicle in non-trailer configuration. Trailer sway was also negligable except on the day we left N.S., driving against headwinds in the 30-35 knot range in gusts, and on some heavily rutted segments of I-95 in the Carolinas, where the trailer wheels wandered in and out of a narrower rutted wheel track. Once the boat is launched here this summer, I will move the axles back about 2'' more.
We averaged about 60-65 mph. The Jeep diesel mileage varied from 10.5 mpg on the day we left with strong headwinds to 14.7 mpg with a brisk tailwind. Average was about 12.5. Had a great trip with four consecutive weeks spent eating and sleeping on the boat, plus five nights sleeping on it in truck stops on the trip there and back. Its a great cruising boat!

Cheers,
Rick
Ron
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by Ron »

Rick -

The Jeep Liberty still scares me a drop. I'd be VERY carefull at higher speeds. You've got between 6500 and 7000 pounds behind a vehicle that can't weigh much more than about 4000. Ever hear of the expression "the tail is wagging the dog"? The tongue weight, which should be in the 550 pound range, could also be a problem. What can the Liberty safely carry?

My Avalanche, which weighs close to 6500 unloaded, can pull this kind of load safer. The tail is about as heavy as the dog. A 7500 pound Ford Superduty would do it even better. Big dog, smaller tail. And I'd still use a weight distributing hitch. Pulling a heavy trailer safely involves a bunch of things, including tow vehicle weight, wheelbase, and braking capacity. Horsepower and torque will help the actual pull, but won't overcome the physical limitations posed by the smaller vehicle.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
rbw
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What vehicle do you use to tow your T2?

Post by rbw »

Thanks for the reply, Ron. I set the trailer up to have about 500 lbs. on the hitch, which is the Jeep hitch rating. I have the weight equalizing hitch as well. Although I sense I could occasionally use a bit more hitch weight (to eliminate sway in the very few instances that we still have it, such as during high winds and heavily rutted roads)--I don't think an extra 50 lbs hitch weight would break the Jeep--I probably should weigh the boat, trailer and car before I move the axle back again. Troutlily is the last demo before Tony went to full production, and he indicated to me at time of purchase that he had pushed this particular design towards the lighter end of the construction spectrum--i.e.the production model was heavier. It may be that the boat is actually closer to the "theoretical' 3600 lb. manufacturer's weight, than the 4500 lb. or more for production models, in which case a 500 lb. hitch weight would be within acceptable limits.

I totally agree a larger tow vehicle would make for easier towing, but we are a one vehicle family in a high cost diesel environment (diesel at approximately $5.10 US/gal. this winter). The only other diesel tow vehicle currently available in our market is a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel, which is a lot more truck and torque than necessary to pull the boat. The Jeep diesel seems to be an acceptable compromise between a family car and an acceptable tow vehicle, getting the job down, albeit slower and with a greater degree of driving awareness and vigiliance necessary. It's too bad that there is such an aversion to diesel here in North America. Otherwise, we might have a greater selection of appropriate tow vehicles. I farmed full time for over twenty years and nobody in commercial farming or forestry has used anything but diesel since about 1970 for tractors, skidders, etc. Gas is really the wrong choice for towing purposes.

Cheers,
Rick
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