Bottom painting

Tips and posts general maintenance.
Ron
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: SW Florida
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Ron »

Generally speaking, peeling like that is normally caused by not removing all of the mold wax. That's the main problem of painting new fiberglass. They need the wax to release the piece from the mold, but it's all got to come off before it sees paint. There's a whole procedure for doing it at most of the boat paint sites. Mess up in a few spots and presto, you've got peeling paint.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Pat Ross
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Panhandle Florida U. S. Gulf Coast
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Pat Ross »

I am thinking that Vivid may be the best choice for us here in Florida since the boat will be in and out of the water. We expect to do some major upgrades to Bayou Breeze from November through February, meaning the boat will be on the hard for those 4 months. Best as I can tell Vivid seems to be the best choice for our conditions in Florida and for the length of time the boat will be in and out of the water. Feedback appreciated.

Regards,

Pat
Ron
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: SW Florida
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Ron »

Pat -

Any boat that will be in and out of the water many times is probably better off with a good ablative. Most of the hard bottom paints cannot tolerate trailer or boat lift time - the paint become useless after xx days of exposure to air. I've heard that Vivid is a good bottom paint, but so are some of the others. I've been using Petit Hydrocoat for years, mainly because it can be burnished and it is scrubable - somewhat unusual characteristics for an ablative paint. It contains teflon and you know what that does to a frying pan. But I would not use it in Florida (my new home state) if I did not have a boat lift which the boat spends perhaps 1/3 of it's life on.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
Pat Ross
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Panhandle Florida U. S. Gulf Coast
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Pat Ross »

Ron wrote: But I would not use it in Florida (my new home state) if I did not have a boat lift which the boat spends perhaps 1/3 of it's life on.
Ron,

If I understood your earlier posts on Hydrocoat, the reason you would not use it "without a lift routinely available" is because you did not think it could do the job full time in the waters of Florida, correct?

Pat
Ron
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: SW Florida
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Ron »

Pat -

Correct - I don't think it has enough copper in the mix to handle warm salt water full time for 2 years, and it is not as slime resistant as some of the newer paints. You can probably get away with one season, but not much more down there. It works great up in the northeast with its cooler water and shorter season - and thats where I've been using it for many years, with bottom painting every 2nd or maybe even 3rd year. When the boat's down in Florida for half a year, I normally stick it on the lift around 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. The boat has not been in the water down there for more than 10 days at a time. Tropical and sub-tropical conditions make it tough for any bottom paint to work effectively.

Vivid looks like a good paint, but I've never used it. Like Hydrocoat, it's ablative, can be launched and re-launched, is scrubbable, trailerable, and can be burnished to get a smoother finish. To be honest, the only reason why I'm still staying with Hydrocoat is that it is water based (until it sets on the hull). That means water cleanup and no toxins running onto my lawn. Everything (including me) washes off with water and soap. Easiest bottom painting I've ever done. Then stick a stotch-brite pad on the buffer and make it look like a teflon frying pan.

Whatever bottom paint you actually use, make sure it can handle warmer water, can be re-launched weeks or months apart, and is scrubbable and trailerable. Not all ablatives are hard enough to withstand a scrub brush, pressure washer and trailer bunks. I've seen some where a diver will just about take the paint off while cleaning the hull.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
wingman
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:25 pm
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by wingman »

I just exchanged emails with Petit and they claim that Vivid meets your requirements, Ron. It is not quite an ablative. Practical Sailor lists it under hard paints, for example, and gives it a multi-season rating.

I am going to clean my bottom for the first time in three months here in the Chesapeake. I have been sailing at least once a week and often two or three times. I will let you know how clean she is!

John
Ron
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: SW Florida
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Ron »

John -

I think Vivid is probably a good bottom paint, with these notes or concerns -

It uses toxic solvents and has a flash point of 110 degrees F, compared to Hydrocoat which has neither. It's water based. I paint on my lawn or driveway and then get the garden hose and wash everything away - on the ground, trailer, tools and myself.

Both can be burnished, but Hydrocoat contains PTFE (teflon). What makes Vivid slippery?

Vivid has less copper content than Hydrocoat (25% vs 41%). Real tropical paints are up in the 60 to 70 percent copper range. I'm not sure either qualify for in-the-water storage in Florida (Pat's question). Maybe one year at best?

The hybrid (hard/ablative) Vivid may also leave some residue on the hull which may eventually have to be sanded off. Hydrocoat eventually washes away to expose your gel or barrier coat. I'd like to see a hull that was painted in Vivid maybe 2 years ago to see what's there now. Bottom painting is bad enough without having to sand everything off first.

This is the Pettit Hydrocoat brochure - http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare/pr ... 124006.pdf

By the way - the more you use the boat the cleaner it should be. Organisms don't have the time to attach themselves. They get washed away. The faster you go, the better. I'm not ready to switch. If I ever wind up with a Florida boat that's always in the water then the switch would be to something other than these two.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
drsm
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:12 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by drsm »

What did you use for a barrier coat under the Pettit Hydrocoat?

Steve
Ron
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: SW Florida
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by Ron »

Steve -

Didn't say I did use a barrier coat, just that the bottom paint will ablate off exposing what you started with. In my case it's the thin layer of Interlux epoxy bottom paint that comes with the boat - which is not a bad choice for becoming a primer for an ablative. Before the boat ever saw the water I gave it a light sanding followed by 2 1/2 coats of Petit Hydrocoat.

Interlux, Petit and others make decent epoxy and vinylester "barrier coats" that will make it more difficult for water to get to the gel coat, but note that none of them are entirely waterproof. I did not think I needed it because I expected the boat would be on the lift or trailer for maybe half of it's life. But I've been in the water now for about 2 months, with another 6 weeks to go, and I am going to take a good look at the hull when I get it back on the trailer in early October.
Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
seicam
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:58 pm
Contact:

Bottom painting

Post by seicam »

I have a few questions on my own for this thread.

We've got our boat in August, and except for the first week we have kept it on the trailer and launched and retrieved for each sail. So far we have not go on multi-day trips. So the boat is more on the trailer than in the water. From reading here and on the paint manufacturer site, it appears that this renders my factory-provided Bottomkote quite useless as an anti-fouling paint. I assume that I should not be overly worried about that for now, because a) the paint still provides the water protection anyway, and b) we will stop sailing in a month or so and the boat will go to the storage. If anyone thinks I should be worried about the paint now, let me know :-)

My question is more about what to do in the spring. Assuming that I will continue to keep the boat on trailer and only sail for up to week at a time, I think I will need to apply a new ablative paint in the sprint, either Hydrocoat recommended here or something similar. Would you guys recommend applying it on top of the bottomkote or strip everything off and put a barrier coat then the new paint? Does the fact that the bottomkote was in the water and then off the water affect its usefulness as a underlying barrier paint?

Regards,
Maciek
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests