Fiberglass problems

[drsm]

I just had Buen Tiempo hauled for the winter . There was a collection of Zebra mussels about 4" in diameter attached to the starboard ama, just inboard from ama centerline, which I thought odd. I've had them clinging to through hulls and around the centerboard trunk, but never directly to the painted hull. When the mussels were washed away, I discovered the issue--there is a large section (maybe 8" in diameter) of gel coat flaking away from the underlying fiberglass matting! I have no idea how far the damage extends, because I was afraid to keep flaking away the gel coat. I assume water has entered the matting and is creeping under the gel coat. The boat has been on a mooring all season since her maiden launch earlier this summer. She's kept in 40' of water and has never approached anything to have damage to that part of the ama.

As my cleaning progressed over the topsides, I was horrified to find another area of gel coat on the cabin roof by the mast base that flaked away with a spray of water! This area is only about 2" in diameter (at present), but again appears to extend to the underlying matting.

My original plan was to have the bottom paint stripped this winter and a sealant applied; now it looks like fiberglass repair will have to be added to the list.

Any idea what's happening here? Anyone else experience this? I will email Will in hopes of him answering me, too.

Distraught in Michigan,
Steve

[trashpad]

Hey Steve,

I found a void about one inch in dia right next to the port winch. I filled it in with white silicone to keep the water out and showed Will. I also had a crack form on the Stb side that opened up a bit. Will OK'd all the repairs. The main thing to do is keep the water out until it can be repaired.

Not sure what to tell you about the bottom. It almost looks like there is no gel coat but cloth-fairing compound-paint.

[Ron]

Steve -

Not sure if this is the cause, but the "glue" that some of these organisms develop are somewhat capable of damaging fiberglass. The adhesive is acidic. This is mentioned in the owners manual as well. The question is - Which came first, the mussels or the loss of gelcoat? There could have been a large void just under the gel coat. A good fiberglass person may be able to determine how it started.

The other thing is how long after the epoxy bottom paint was applied until the boat first hit the water, and was it hauled and re-launched anytime since then? The paint has to get wet within a few weeks at best, and cannot be in the air for any significant period after that. Most hard paints have these properties. The surface preparation is critical on the first paint too - any minor screw-ups could cause this kind of problem. The paint won't stick that well to the mold release wax and other chemicals leeching out of the hull. If that area was not that clean, the paint would have flaked off by itself, exposing the area to some hungry intruders.

[Brewmaster]

I've got about four blisters bubbling out on the starboard side of the main hull 12" above the waterline just aft of the bow. My boat is brand new this April 09 and didn't go into the water until the end of May. These blisters appeared after the boat had only been the water for a month and a half.I talked to Tony about it and he said that this can happen sometimes but that it only sounded like a cosmetic problem and would not contribute any structural damage. I guess I'll buy into that theory as long as the blister bubbles don't crack open but I was somewhat nonplussed at Tony's blase' attitude toward what is obviously a manufacturing defect. When I pay close to 90K for a brand new boat, I don't expect cosmetic problems to show up in that short a time. Tony did not offer to pay for any repair or think that any warranty situation was in effect for this problem. I've read quite a few posts on the old and new ITOA forums from Telstar owners who have all had fiberglass/gelcoat problems related to Tony with similar results. I held off buying my Telstar 28 for over a year hoping that some of the complaints were being addressed and corrected but apparently not. Maybe now that Tony has moved into the new facility and is setting up a new assembly line dedicated to the Telstars, he can pay more attention to the little details like the cosmetics of the craft. I've had alot of fun on the boat this summer and for the most part, I'm very happy with it's performance. It certainly turns heads leaving the marina and spreading its wings as it goes past a couple of waterfront bars. I will stay in a wait-and-see mode in regards to these blisters but if they turn into a structurally threatening condition, I'm going to go after PCI for the repairs.

Brewmaster
Hull #380 Still Kicking II

[Ron]

Others will jump into this thread, but I think that Performance Sailing (new name) will pay for the repairs. I've heard that he has done this in the past. It's 12 inches ABOVE the waterline? Kind of strange considering that osmotic blisters are normally caused by water getting behind the gel coat.

[Brewmaster]

Ron:
According to Tony, these are not osmotic blisters. They occur because of air getting trapped "inadvertently" while they are laying up the hull and subsequent heating and cooling shows the faults up. I really don't know the total problem or the solution for same, but as you say, there is a common thread to a lot of the owner complaints on the gelcoat both on the hull and on the deck. I'm assuming that the big chip shown on the deck of the western MI Telstar could easily have been one of these blisters and just moving around on the deck could have broken it off.

Brewmaster
Hull #380 Still Kicking II

[Ron]

I think Tony will fix it, or pay for it to be fixed. I've never had a problem with him or Will. But I do recall that some others have had some complaints. Maybe it's the way he's asked? I've had some experience with other boat builders (including Frank Butler at Catalina) and threats never seem to work. I remember a Catalina owner or two who had their lawyers make the first call. Big mistake.

[trashpad]

Can you post some photos of what they look like?

[rorr1203]

Reopening an old topic – I discovery a large area (about the size of the palm of my hand) where the of the gel coat / bottom paint has flaked away from the fiberglass matting on the port side ama. I did a quick check on the rest of the hull and found no other blisters or cracks. I’ll give it a more thorough going over this weekend. If there are no other problems (cross my fingers) and only this chip needs to be repaired what would be my best short term and longer term fix?

Note: I haven't done a lot of repairs of this type. Only a little West System patches on my catamaran where I was hit by a competitor or poked a harness hook in the hull, so if you could please go slow and don't assume I know anything about resins, epoxies and such I would appreciate.

[img]http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Publ ... 02%3a28+PM
[/img]

Thanks

[Dan]

Provided the underlying fiberglass has been given time to dry out, you should probably sand it lightly and then coat the area with thickened epoxy. I'd recommend using colloidial silica (cabosil) as the thickening media.

I'd recommend getting the epoxy from Progressive Epoxy Polymers in NH, as they have a very good marine epoxy that is much less expensive than West or the other name brands. Paul, the owner, knows his boat building too. www.epoxyproducts.com

After the epoxy has cured, you'll want to sand it fair and then either paint or gelcoat it.