Rudder lifting effort

[tricruiser]

Hello Guys,

My boat is finally in the water for the first time after some internal and electrical works.
On the trailer the rudder was very difficult to lift and could be only done by helping it from the ground.
I though this was probably normal and that in the water the buoyancy would make it easy to lift! None of that! I Can hardly lift it.
I wonder what is the "normal" lifting effort to raise it? On mine it looks like I would need a 10:1 help!
Looks like the support lift first then the board itself?
Does anyone have a picture of the whole rudder system off the boat, or a more elaborate plan that the one in the manual? To understand the mechanism. (and do anything possible to make it better)
I am planning to retrieve(already) the boat for a possible complete removal and inspection of the rudder system but I am keen to get as much info on the subject if possible.
Surely, it should not be an herculean effort to lift it up?
May be something is wrong in the articulation or too much friction somewhere?
Hope the Telstar old salts can help???
Many thanks and happy new year to all
Tricruiser

[Ron]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Looks like the support lift first then the board itself?" If the "support" is the rotating assembly on the 28 that the swiveling rudder is attached to, then they've got to move at the same time. Out of the water would be much more difficult than in, but the rudder can be raised in both cases with a good hard pull using both arms. Both control lines (up and down) must be totally free (unlatch the stoppers). Check to see that both control lines are not rubbing on fiberglass where they go thru the transom and inner liner, and that both are using blocks to increase the purchase. I had to increase the size of these holes with a dremel tool because there was some rubbing. You may already have the attachment below in the owners manual, but it was not included in the older copies.

[tricruiser]

Hello Ron,
Many Thanks for your comments and Happy New year.
Hope you are not in the deep freeze?

Yes, both stoppers are unlocked and I have blocks in the rudder compartment but I will check tomorrow if they are all there.
In any case what do you mean by good hard pull using both arms?? value in LBS or KGs to give me a guide ???

I think it is way too hard on mine (although I have carpal tunnel syndrome operation and also rheumatoid arthritis, so my pull is not what it was before and I just cannot pull that hard.
Will check the opening, rubbing etc, but I think that means retrieving the boat on the trailer .
On that subject, our Yacht Club ramp is fairly shallow and the trailer need to be disconnected from the tractor and immersed quite far to float the boat! was quite a discovery!!! cannot do that away from home easily!

Best regards
Fred

[Ron]

I'd guess that the force on the control lines to raise or lower the rudder is in the 20 to 25 pound range when the boat is at rest in the water. If it is up and you want to lower it, you could step on the tilting mechanism (at the transom) to get it started in the down direction. Probably not a bad idea to lubricate some of the blocks, the conrol and lifing lines, etc with something like McLube Sailkote (or other dry PTFE lubricant). It also works better wet, so I sometimes lift or lower part of the way to get some water on it, then go back and start over. I had shoulder surgery a few months ago and my right arm is considerably down on power now, but I can raise or lower it without much trouble.

If yours is considerably harder, you should probably check how the lines were run. They change direction at the rudder assembly by going halfway around a swiveling pipe. Miss this swivel and it could easily raise the effort. Check the size and location of the driled holes in the transom as well. I had to use a dremel tool to enlarge them, but I was more concerned with abrasion.

You can buy a 3 or 4 foot extension for the hitch. It's a 2 inch square tube that plugs into the truck's receiver, with the ball hitch stuck in the back end. These will seriously decrease the amount you can safely tow, so do it at or near the ramp. Do not tow with the extension !!!!! I sometimes use one to keep the trucks brakes and axle out of the water. If the club is using a tractor, what's keeping the tongue up when they disconnect it? The small swivel wheel tongue jack was not meant to handle this. Most ramps are probably a little steeper and should be less trouble.

[Jerry]

I noticed that my rudder raises and lowers a lot easier when the rudder is centered. If I try to raise with the rudder off center there is a lot more force required.
Jerry

[Ron]

I took the boat out today for a few hours (sorry to tell you this, but the temp was in the upper 70's). My 25 pound estimate of the force to raise or lower the rudder was way too high. It's probably in the 10 to 15 pound range. I took my own advice first - spraying the blocks and lower AmSteel lines with McLube Sailkote - but down below, not where the two stoppers grab the upper control lines. It definitely make it easier. I had replaced the lower lines about 2 years ago, choosing slightly narrower AmSteel dyneema cordage to replace what was probably polyester StaSet or similar. Besides being MUCH stronger, the dyneema is very resistant to abrasion.

This is probably the best diagram of the rudder control lines I've seen. It's enlarged a drop here. Note that the two lower lines go around a spool attached near the back of the rudder before they are tied to it. The line that lowers the rudder is tied to a stainless plate at the back and goes under the spool, while the one that raises it is tied to a fitting closer to the front edge of the carrier and goes above it. The 2 guide blocks are actually located in the gasoline / steering compartment - not below as indicated. It's also color coded wrong - the upper control line with the green stopper at the end lowers the rudder, the red stopper raises it. At least that's the way it was set up on my boat.

[tricruiser]

Hello Guys,
Thanks a Lot for your contributions.
OK, Ron, will measure today the effort with a 25KGs weight gauge, but I am sure will go over it (probably 50LBs+)
So, I will retrieve the boat to check this and apply all the suggestions! (I would be delighted to get a 10 to 15 LBS pull!)

I also have to add bottom paint on the floats towards and at sterns as they dip lower in the water when they are folded at the pen.

B/RGDS
Fred

[Ron]

The ama's go down around 4 to 5 inches when retracted, which could put the waterline above the bottom paint. He did that to gain stability when folded. It's probably the only trimaran out there which can be motored in heavier seas that way (with no sails up obviously). Wouldn't want to do that in a Corsair. If you have to park it folded up, you might want to raise the bottom paint. Some of the other guys have done this too.

If you need 50 pounds of force to raise or lower the rudder, something is wrong. I did it one handed today - with my left arm. I really think the McLube helped. It just slithered down then up. Some racers use McLube (and a special version of it) to spray on the bottom before a race. The stuff really works. Probably cost over $100 for enough spray cans to do it, but you can buy it by the gallon too. I spray just about everything that moves every month or two. Remember to coat the slides and tracks that allow the trampolines to move around.

One other note - the swivel tube I mentioned that redirects the control lines is attached to the transom (in the slot), not on the rudder itself. The rudder is much easier to rig if you pull the fulcrum bolt out and lower it about a foot or so.

[drsm]

Fred,
On Buen Tiempo, raising the rudder takes very little effort. Lowering it, I find that if I step on the rudder base to start it down, things go more smoothly.
Steve

[tricruiser]

Hello Ron,

Well, I can say that the rudder and pivot are working well as I can lift it by hand.
The whole problem is in the well hidden blocks, rope system!
How on earth PCI hid the assembly so well with no possibility to servicing it easily? After all, the rudder and control is a major item of a boat and safety!
From what I could see so far they used 1/4" Blocks and there are at least 8mm rope in there, all chaffing against the flanges, etc, and extraordinary hard to move. (May be the previous owner messed it up)
Will replace them with dyeema rope 6mm (knowned here as Spectra).

But I will cut either a hole on the vertical panel and install either a rond inspection hatch or even a removable Lid Locker hatch to access those troubelsome blocks and ropes! Any Commnents on this hatch?

Also I checked that there is no water in the cavity under the cockpit, so I am puzzled why my floats are so low!

Best regards

Fred